1 00:00:24,159 --> 00:00:16,080 [Music] 2 00:00:25,420 --> 00:00:24,169 I'd like to talk this morning about a 3 00:00:27,479 --> 00:00:25,430 set of experiments that have been 4 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:27,489 conducted over the last several years 5 00:00:32,770 --> 00:00:30,050 which are probing the foundations of 6 00:00:34,450 --> 00:00:32,780 thermodynamics the experiments are 7 00:00:37,420 --> 00:00:34,460 conducted at high temperature roughly 8 00:00:39,430 --> 00:00:37,430 about 2,000 degrees using refractory 9 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:39,440 metals like tungsten and rhenium in a 10 00:00:43,570 --> 00:00:41,810 hydrogen gas but to understand this 11 00:00:45,340 --> 00:00:43,580 experiment doesn't require much more 12 00:00:46,270 --> 00:00:45,350 than really a glass of water because the 13 00:00:48,910 --> 00:00:46,280 effect is similar 14 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:48,920 so consider a glass of water in this 15 00:00:53,350 --> 00:00:51,650 room if you put it down you expect it to 16 00:00:56,500 --> 00:00:53,360 come to the temperature of the room and 17 00:00:58,120 --> 00:00:56,510 should stay that way forever but if the 18 00:01:02,650 --> 00:00:58,130 molecules in the room were to conspire 19 00:01:04,509 --> 00:01:02,660 to let's say cool this water down to 20 20 00:01:07,690 --> 00:01:04,519 degrees below where it was is now to 21 00:01:08,380 --> 00:01:07,700 around its freezing point and keep it 22 00:01:10,870 --> 00:01:08,390 there forever 23 00:01:12,819 --> 00:01:10,880 you'd think that's peculiar and it would 24 00:01:15,550 --> 00:01:12,829 be because it would violate the second 25 00:01:18,279 --> 00:01:15,560 law of thermodynamics the experiments 26 00:01:23,649 --> 00:01:18,289 I'd like to describe today are the 27 00:01:25,809 --> 00:01:23,659 analog of this at high temperature I'd 28 00:01:27,639 --> 00:01:25,819 like to acknowledge the following people 29 00:01:30,849 --> 00:01:27,649 who are involved in in these experiments 30 00:01:33,010 --> 00:01:30,859 and also this talk is dedicated to 31 00:01:34,239 --> 00:01:33,020 Garrett Modell and New York Dobyns for 32 00:01:36,309 --> 00:01:34,249 pestering me over the last several years 33 00:01:39,569 --> 00:01:36,319 to do these kinds of experiments so 34 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:39,579 thank you at the bottom are two articles 35 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:42,770 the first one is I mean foundations of 36 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:44,450 physics from this year these these this 37 00:01:49,389 --> 00:01:46,490 describes the experiments in more detail 38 00:01:51,580 --> 00:01:49,399 and the article from Physical Review II 39 00:01:56,889 --> 00:01:51,590 describes the theory on on which the 40 00:01:58,989 --> 00:01:56,899 experiments are based now the second law 41 00:02:01,209 --> 00:01:58,999 of thermodynamics is has been called the 42 00:02:03,159 --> 00:02:01,219 supreme law of nature it has lots of 43 00:02:05,949 --> 00:02:03,169 formal definitions and a lot of 44 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:05,959 colloquial ones as well the number of 45 00:02:10,089 --> 00:02:08,090 formal definitions a couple dozen at 46 00:02:11,920 --> 00:02:10,099 least ones that you may be familiar with 47 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:11,930 are there are no perfect heat engines 48 00:02:16,690 --> 00:02:13,730 there are no perfect refrigerators for 49 00:02:18,130 --> 00:02:16,700 any spontaneous process in nature the 50 00:02:20,180 --> 00:02:18,140 entropy change of the universe can 51 00:02:23,610 --> 00:02:20,190 cannot be less than zero 52 00:02:25,740 --> 00:02:23,620 one cannot transform an amount of heat 53 00:02:28,110 --> 00:02:25,750 solely into work in a closed cycle these 54 00:02:30,089 --> 00:02:28,120 are formal definitions but in everyday 55 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:30,099 life we also have our understanding of 56 00:02:35,759 --> 00:02:31,690 the second law because it governs our 57 00:02:37,650 --> 00:02:35,769 lives so for instance a mess tends to 58 00:02:40,619 --> 00:02:37,660 expand into the space available to it 59 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:40,629 the only way to deal with a can of worms 60 00:02:47,940 --> 00:02:45,370 is to find a bigger can Murphy's Law in 61 00:02:48,330 --> 00:02:47,950 a sense is this anything can go wrong it 62 00:02:52,319 --> 00:02:48,340 will 63 00:02:54,660 --> 00:02:52,329 and it's corollary every all situations 64 00:02:57,059 --> 00:02:54,670 tend to progress from bad to worse 65 00:02:59,430 --> 00:02:57,069 and then you can say well everything 66 00:03:06,059 --> 00:02:59,440 degrades we're all going to die this is 67 00:03:07,890 --> 00:03:06,069 because of the second law now when it 68 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:07,900 comes to the second law there is much at 69 00:03:13,470 --> 00:03:11,170 stake the reason why we spend so much 70 00:03:15,300 --> 00:03:13,480 money on energy in this world roughly 71 00:03:18,030 --> 00:03:15,310 20% of the world's economy is devoted to 72 00:03:21,839 --> 00:03:18,040 energy is because when we use it we lose 73 00:03:23,550 --> 00:03:21,849 it after it's done 99.9% of it gets 74 00:03:26,699 --> 00:03:23,560 turned into heat and we can't get it 75 00:03:28,500 --> 00:03:26,709 back for every energy transaction for 76 00:03:31,620 --> 00:03:28,510 macroscopic objects that we carry out we 77 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:31,630 pay attacks based on the second law but 78 00:03:35,309 --> 00:03:33,010 in fact if you look at the amount of 79 00:03:37,650 --> 00:03:35,319 heat in the world and if you could break 80 00:03:40,140 --> 00:03:37,660 the second law or bend it you would have 81 00:03:43,140 --> 00:03:40,150 access to virtually unlimited amounts of 82 00:03:44,670 --> 00:03:43,150 energy for instance in this room the 83 00:03:47,250 --> 00:03:44,680 volume of the air in this room is about 84 00:03:50,190 --> 00:03:47,260 six thousand cubic meters or about 7,000 85 00:03:51,900 --> 00:03:50,200 kilograms of air in this room and the 86 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:51,910 amount of thermal energy in this room is 87 00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:53,650 equivalent to several hundred pounds of 88 00:03:58,140 --> 00:03:56,650 TNT in terms of its just intrinsic 89 00:04:00,960 --> 00:03:58,150 energy but we can't get at it the 90 00:04:03,770 --> 00:04:00,970 thermal energy in this class of water is 91 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:03,780 equivalent to roughly about five to ten 92 00:04:08,879 --> 00:04:06,010 milliliters of gasoline and that's true 93 00:04:11,069 --> 00:04:08,889 of everything the tables us the air the 94 00:04:13,170 --> 00:04:11,079 water everything around us is loaded 95 00:04:14,729 --> 00:04:13,180 with thermal energy if one looks at the 96 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:14,739 thermal energy and the upper app in the 97 00:04:19,469 --> 00:04:16,570 atmosphere the oceans in the upper crust 98 00:04:21,750 --> 00:04:19,479 is equivalent to roughly about 10,000 99 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:21,760 times the entire fossil fuel reserves in 100 00:04:27,779 --> 00:04:25,090 the world not only that but if energy 101 00:04:30,510 --> 00:04:27,789 can be recycled in other words bending 102 00:04:32,670 --> 00:04:30,520 the second law then this energy would 103 00:04:35,619 --> 00:04:32,680 become recyclable and therefore 104 00:04:40,070 --> 00:04:38,240 now the second law has a mystique about 105 00:04:41,719 --> 00:04:40,080 it which is which has been around almost 106 00:04:43,550 --> 00:04:41,729 since its beginning certainly over the 107 00:04:45,860 --> 00:04:43,560 last hundred years and it can be summed 108 00:04:47,540 --> 00:04:45,870 up largely in the words of Arthur 109 00:04:48,980 --> 00:04:47,550 Eddington when he says that if your 110 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:48,990 theory is found to be against the second 111 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:51,210 law I can give you no hope but for to 112 00:04:57,140 --> 00:04:54,210 collapse in deepest humiliation this is 113 00:05:02,360 --> 00:04:57,150 this was 85 years ago and as the second 114 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:02,370 law says all things change in the last 115 00:05:06,409 --> 00:05:04,530 twenty to twenty-five years there's been 116 00:05:07,909 --> 00:05:06,419 a revolution with regard to the second 117 00:05:10,969 --> 00:05:07,919 law in the mainstream scientific 118 00:05:13,550 --> 00:05:10,979 literature there had been roughly 25 119 00:05:15,770 --> 00:05:13,560 challenges posed more than 25 challenges 120 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:15,780 posed in over 70 refereed articles and 121 00:05:19,969 --> 00:05:18,690 some of the best journals in physics in 122 00:05:21,950 --> 00:05:19,979 fact there have been more challenges 123 00:05:26,629 --> 00:05:21,960 over the last 20 years than there been 124 00:05:28,580 --> 00:05:26,639 over the last 200 years at the 125 00:05:29,570 --> 00:05:28,590 University of San Diego my colleagues 126 00:05:31,730 --> 00:05:29,580 and I have worked on a number of 127 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:31,740 challenges which involve plasma physics 128 00:05:36,499 --> 00:05:33,930 um gravitational physics chemical 129 00:05:38,980 --> 00:05:36,509 physics solid-state physics and one I'll 130 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:38,990 describe today deals with experiments in 131 00:05:43,459 --> 00:05:41,610 chemical physics and there'll be two 132 00:05:45,110 --> 00:05:43,469 experiments which I mutually reinforce 133 00:05:47,809 --> 00:05:45,120 each other which I'd like to describe 134 00:05:52,100 --> 00:05:47,819 the first involves filaments of tungsten 135 00:05:54,529 --> 00:05:52,110 and rhenium in hydrogen gas and secondly 136 00:05:56,930 --> 00:05:54,539 black body cavity experiments also known 137 00:05:59,809 --> 00:05:56,940 as Duncan's paradox which was proposed 138 00:06:01,219 --> 00:05:59,819 about 15 years ago now for those of you 139 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:01,229 don't know what a black body cavity is 140 00:06:05,959 --> 00:06:03,810 is just a closed in tank container that 141 00:06:08,629 --> 00:06:05,969 is at one temperature that's a black 142 00:06:10,730 --> 00:06:08,639 body cavity and so just inside of a 143 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:10,740 stove inside of this room if you are 144 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:12,810 ready to settle down to one temperature 145 00:06:19,010 --> 00:06:14,849 anything can be a black body cavity it's 146 00:06:20,149 --> 00:06:19,020 defined simply by temperature so to get 147 00:06:23,959 --> 00:06:20,159 started let's talk a little bit about 148 00:06:25,909 --> 00:06:23,969 gas phase equilibrium if you take a diet 149 00:06:28,939 --> 00:06:25,919 I'm an archetypal reaction like a 150 00:06:31,610 --> 00:06:28,949 diatomic molecule a - it will be in 151 00:06:35,649 --> 00:06:31,620 equilibrium in a gas phase with its 152 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:35,659 monomer the monomer or the atom a and 153 00:06:39,529 --> 00:06:37,770 they go back and forth and dynamic 154 00:06:41,180 --> 00:06:39,539 equilibrium and the company there is a 155 00:06:43,730 --> 00:06:41,190 constant for disassociation and a 156 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:43,740 constant for recombination and the 157 00:06:46,370 --> 00:06:45,330 equilibrium constant when everything 158 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:46,380 settles down at a given 159 00:06:50,840 --> 00:06:48,530 and pressure will be given by the 160 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:50,850 concentration of the atom squared 161 00:06:54,950 --> 00:06:52,530 divided by the concentration of the 162 00:06:57,980 --> 00:06:54,960 dimer and that can also be related to 163 00:07:03,770 --> 00:06:57,990 the Gibbs free energy Delta G divided by 164 00:07:05,870 --> 00:07:03,780 RT which is the thermal energy now the 165 00:07:07,550 --> 00:07:05,880 simplest kinds of reactions are ones in 166 00:07:09,350 --> 00:07:07,560 which you basically have four processes 167 00:07:11,930 --> 00:07:09,360 adsorption where molecules come in and 168 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:11,940 stick onto a surface where they desorb 169 00:07:17,090 --> 00:07:14,490 or leave the surface where they on the 170 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:17,100 surface they can disassociate molecules 171 00:07:22,580 --> 00:07:19,410 into atoms and then recombination where 172 00:07:24,860 --> 00:07:22,590 the atoms recombine into molecules and 173 00:07:29,060 --> 00:07:24,870 these and these processes can also occur 174 00:07:32,510 --> 00:07:29,070 in the gas phase so if one has a gas and 175 00:07:34,900 --> 00:07:32,520 a surface one gets when things things 176 00:07:37,070 --> 00:07:34,910 settle down what is called a gas surface 177 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:37,080 equilibrium where you have a constant 178 00:07:41,210 --> 00:07:39,450 regeneration of atoms and molecules on 179 00:07:42,470 --> 00:07:41,220 the surface in the gas phase where 180 00:07:45,350 --> 00:07:42,480 they're coming back and forth from the 181 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:45,360 surface each all species and turning 182 00:07:52,220 --> 00:07:48,330 back between molecules and atoms in the 183 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:52,230 gas and surface phase but if you make 184 00:07:58,310 --> 00:07:55,770 the gas diffuse enough such that gas 185 00:08:02,930 --> 00:07:58,320 phase conflict the gas phase collisions 186 00:08:05,390 --> 00:08:02,940 are rare then you lose the equilibrium 187 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:05,400 of the gas phase those reactions are no 188 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:09,210 longer feasible and as a result the gas 189 00:08:13,550 --> 00:08:11,370 phase is determined by what happens on 190 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:13,560 the surface and what comes on and off 191 00:08:19,940 --> 00:08:16,410 the surface and this particular steady 192 00:08:22,820 --> 00:08:19,950 state non equilibrium and it's described 193 00:08:24,650 --> 00:08:22,830 in the fizzy paper at the top and is 194 00:08:27,590 --> 00:08:24,660 well-known in the physics community 195 00:08:29,180 --> 00:08:27,600 through things like QED plasmas and in 196 00:08:32,930 --> 00:08:29,190 the hydrogen reactions which I'll 197 00:08:35,810 --> 00:08:32,940 describe now the paradox upon which 198 00:08:37,940 --> 00:08:35,820 these reactions are these experiments 199 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:37,950 are based were proposed by Todd Duncan 200 00:08:43,130 --> 00:08:41,490 about 15 years ago and they involve at 201 00:08:44,420 --> 00:08:43,140 first approximation what's called a 202 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:44,430 Radiometer which many of you have played 203 00:08:48,590 --> 00:08:45,810 with as children which is basically a 204 00:08:51,380 --> 00:08:48,600 partially evacuated glass bulb that has 205 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:51,390 a series of vanes one on one side black 206 00:08:55,850 --> 00:08:53,370 one side white when it's exposed to 207 00:08:58,329 --> 00:08:55,860 light the black side gets hot the white 208 00:09:00,269 --> 00:08:58,339 side stays relatively cool and 209 00:09:01,619 --> 00:09:00,279 effectively a gas pressure 210 00:09:03,689 --> 00:09:01,629 difference between the two sides of the 211 00:09:05,699 --> 00:09:03,699 vein caused it to turn how many how many 212 00:09:07,739 --> 00:09:05,709 of you have played with radiometers okay 213 00:09:09,869 --> 00:09:07,749 so you know what I'm talking about this 214 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:09,879 experiment can be reduced to a 215 00:09:15,749 --> 00:09:14,050 Radiometer so let's look at the gas 216 00:09:18,329 --> 00:09:15,759 surface interactions for the two 217 00:09:21,199 --> 00:09:18,339 surfaces that we're interested in will 218 00:09:24,410 --> 00:09:21,209 have surface 2 s 2 and surface 1 s 1 219 00:09:28,499 --> 00:09:24,420 surface 2 tends to suppress 220 00:09:30,749 --> 00:09:28,509 disassociation so one has atoms come in 221 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:30,759 a two A's come into the surface and 222 00:09:34,199 --> 00:09:32,050 leave out a 2 223 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:34,209 whereas a 2 molecules come in and 224 00:09:39,629 --> 00:09:36,490 basically leave as they came so this 225 00:09:41,910 --> 00:09:39,639 actually promotes recombination and the 226 00:09:46,499 --> 00:09:41,920 s 1 surface suppresses recombination and 227 00:09:48,119 --> 00:09:46,509 tends to enhance disassociation so if 228 00:09:50,009 --> 00:09:48,129 one were to create a Radiometer out of 229 00:09:52,530 --> 00:09:50,019 this in a closed black body cavity with 230 00:09:54,629 --> 00:09:52,540 your with your radiometer veins s 1 and 231 00:09:57,749 --> 00:09:54,639 s 2 you would have a higher pressure on 232 00:10:00,210 --> 00:09:57,759 s 1 then on s 2 and that would cause the 233 00:10:03,269 --> 00:10:00,220 veins to turn and in principle lift a 234 00:10:05,100 --> 00:10:03,279 weight now if it lifts a weight but it 235 00:10:06,629 --> 00:10:05,110 does so in steady state in other words 236 00:10:08,610 --> 00:10:06,639 if these reactions are a steady state 237 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:08,620 non equilibrium then it could lift the 238 00:10:12,299 --> 00:10:10,569 weight forever and keep getting work out 239 00:10:13,889 --> 00:10:12,309 of the system but the only place where 240 00:10:15,059 --> 00:10:13,899 that energy can come from if one thought 241 00:10:17,309 --> 00:10:15,069 satisfies the first law of 242 00:10:20,129 --> 00:10:17,319 thermodynamics is from the heat of the 243 00:10:22,199 --> 00:10:20,139 heat bath that surrounds the system this 244 00:10:24,540 --> 00:10:22,209 is a violation of the second law of 245 00:10:27,179 --> 00:10:24,550 thermodynamics this kind of radiometer 246 00:10:30,269 --> 00:10:27,189 can't exist which means that all 247 00:10:34,199 --> 00:10:30,279 surfaces must behave the same with 248 00:10:36,540 --> 00:10:34,209 respect to gas phase reactions but 249 00:10:39,670 --> 00:10:36,550 that's not true 250 00:10:41,620 --> 00:10:39,680 now you can also repose Duncans paradox 251 00:10:44,290 --> 00:10:41,630 in terms of a temperature version where 252 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:44,300 one sets up a chemical cycle so to speak 253 00:10:50,110 --> 00:10:47,810 on surface one one starts with a two and 254 00:10:53,350 --> 00:10:50,120 it goes to two a atoms which then leave 255 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:53,360 cycled up to the upper surface s2 which 256 00:10:58,060 --> 00:10:56,090 where they recombine into molecules and 257 00:10:59,530 --> 00:10:58,070 then come back down and because of the 258 00:11:01,420 --> 00:10:59,540 disassociation reaction is endothermic 259 00:11:04,180 --> 00:11:01,430 which means that it takes energy to 260 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:04,190 break this molecule s1 will tend to cool 261 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:06,530 and s2 because it's receiving that 262 00:11:11,110 --> 00:11:09,290 chemical energy will tend to heat that 263 00:11:13,300 --> 00:11:11,120 means that you can establish a set a 264 00:11:14,860 --> 00:11:13,310 steady state temperature differential 265 00:11:17,020 --> 00:11:14,870 between these two surfaces that should 266 00:11:18,670 --> 00:11:17,030 not go away but as soon as you have a 267 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:18,680 temperature differential you have the 268 00:11:24,670 --> 00:11:21,850 means to run a heat engine perpetually 269 00:11:26,290 --> 00:11:24,680 which again is violet which violates the 270 00:11:28,870 --> 00:11:26,300 second law so this should not be allowed 271 00:11:30,580 --> 00:11:28,880 and that all turns on whether all 272 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:30,590 surfaces act the same with respect to 273 00:11:35,410 --> 00:11:33,010 the gas or whether they can be different 274 00:11:37,510 --> 00:11:35,420 so the experiments I'd like to describe 275 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:37,520 our experiments which actually 276 00:11:42,070 --> 00:11:39,530 demonstrate that different kinds of 277 00:11:44,410 --> 00:11:42,080 surfaces do perform differently in terms 278 00:11:46,060 --> 00:11:44,420 of disassociation and recombination with 279 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:46,070 respect to a gas in particular hydrogen 280 00:11:50,830 --> 00:11:48,290 so the first set of experiments are a 281 00:11:53,650 --> 00:11:50,840 two filament comparison between tungsten 282 00:11:56,500 --> 00:11:53,660 and rhenium these are the dimensions of 283 00:11:58,360 --> 00:11:56,510 the various items what you're seeing are 284 00:12:01,480 --> 00:11:58,370 two copper electrodes and between them 285 00:12:03,460 --> 00:12:01,490 are strung to planar filaments of 286 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:03,470 identical dimensions thicknesses and so 287 00:12:07,420 --> 00:12:05,930 on one is made out of look the the near 288 00:12:10,420 --> 00:12:07,430 one is made out of rhenium the far one 289 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:10,430 tungsten the temperatures were run 290 00:12:16,210 --> 00:12:14,210 between about 2100 Kelvin and the gases 291 00:12:17,830 --> 00:12:16,220 that were run first vacuum than helium 292 00:12:21,730 --> 00:12:17,840 and hydrogen and the reasons for this 293 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:21,740 will be explained in a moment here's a 294 00:12:25,510 --> 00:12:23,930 schematic of the experiment it consists 295 00:12:28,420 --> 00:12:25,520 of a vacuum vessel with base pressure of 296 00:12:30,070 --> 00:12:28,430 about 10 to the minus 6 Torr and the two 297 00:12:32,260 --> 00:12:30,080 filaments are basically resistors which 298 00:12:33,970 --> 00:12:32,270 are heated by power supplies matched 299 00:12:36,190 --> 00:12:33,980 power supplies and calibrated power 300 00:12:38,140 --> 00:12:36,200 supplies and then looked upon by optical 301 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:38,150 pyrometers which which monitor their 302 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:42,770 temperatures now in order to determine 303 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:44,810 how well each of these disassociates 304 00:12:49,390 --> 00:12:46,850 hydrogen you need to do a comparison and 305 00:12:49,810 --> 00:12:49,400 the first thing and this is a pot of the 306 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:49,820 film 307 00:12:53,470 --> 00:12:52,130 power in watts that's much how much the 308 00:12:55,300 --> 00:12:53,480 electrical power needs to be put through 309 00:12:57,880 --> 00:12:55,310 the filament in order to hold its 310 00:12:59,350 --> 00:12:57,890 temperature at a given value so for 311 00:13:01,570 --> 00:12:59,360 instance if you just let the filaments 312 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:01,580 sit there and in the room it will just 313 00:13:05,110 --> 00:13:03,650 sit there at around 300 Kelvin but if 314 00:13:07,570 --> 00:13:05,120 you wish to bring it up to a thousand or 315 00:13:09,550 --> 00:13:07,580 1500 or 2000 Kelvin as indicated by the 316 00:13:11,310 --> 00:13:09,560 lower axis you have to put electrical 317 00:13:14,260 --> 00:13:11,320 power through it but once you do that 318 00:13:16,750 --> 00:13:14,270 that power will start being lost to the 319 00:13:19,690 --> 00:13:16,760 walls of your vessel in the first case 320 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:19,700 the power sub vac is the amount of power 321 00:13:24,550 --> 00:13:22,370 necessary to hold the temperature in a 322 00:13:26,830 --> 00:13:24,560 vacuum and let's say we want to hold it 323 00:13:29,050 --> 00:13:26,840 at 2,000 degrees then we have to invest 324 00:13:31,060 --> 00:13:29,060 power into that filament to offset the 325 00:13:32,740 --> 00:13:31,070 radiation losses by blackbody radiation 326 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:32,750 from the hot filament it's glowing as 327 00:13:36,310 --> 00:13:34,730 hot as a light bulb and also the 328 00:13:40,090 --> 00:13:36,320 conduction conductive losses to the 329 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:40,100 electrodes now once we enter we put in a 330 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:42,290 certain pressure of helium now we have 331 00:13:44,710 --> 00:13:43,850 another loss channel which means we have 332 00:13:46,060 --> 00:13:44,720 to put in more chant 333 00:13:48,970 --> 00:13:46,070 more power to hold the same temperature 334 00:13:51,210 --> 00:13:48,980 that loss channel power loss channel is 335 00:13:53,980 --> 00:13:51,220 convection of hot helium to the walls 336 00:13:55,630 --> 00:13:53,990 now helium and tunc sand and hydrogen 337 00:13:57,250 --> 00:13:55,640 have basically the same thermal 338 00:13:59,740 --> 00:13:57,260 conductivity within about 10 or 20 339 00:14:03,280 --> 00:13:59,750 percent and so if you now put in 340 00:14:04,420 --> 00:14:03,290 hydrogen the extra power you put in in 341 00:14:06,970 --> 00:14:04,430 order to hold the temperature in a 342 00:14:09,910 --> 00:14:06,980 hydrogen gas at the same pressure that 343 00:14:12,190 --> 00:14:09,920 you had done it at helium corresponds to 344 00:14:14,110 --> 00:14:12,200 the amount of energy that's going into 345 00:14:17,620 --> 00:14:14,120 disassociating those hydrogen molecules 346 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:17,630 on the surface so if one does an 347 00:14:22,380 --> 00:14:19,490 experiment now and compares the amount 348 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:22,390 of power necessary the hydrogen 349 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:26,330 disassociation power in watts between 350 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:28,490 that of tungsten and rhenium you find 351 00:14:31,930 --> 00:14:29,930 that once you get to the temperature at 352 00:14:34,300 --> 00:14:31,940 which disassociation occurs around 1500 353 00:14:35,740 --> 00:14:34,310 Kelvin these two surfaces begin to 354 00:14:36,970 --> 00:14:35,750 deviate in an amount of in the amount of 355 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:36,980 power necessary to hold their 356 00:14:40,420 --> 00:14:38,810 temperatures which means the amount of 357 00:14:42,310 --> 00:14:40,430 hydrogen that they're disassociating and 358 00:14:46,210 --> 00:14:42,320 identical pressures and temperatures are 359 00:14:48,550 --> 00:14:46,220 different therefore you based on this 360 00:14:51,370 --> 00:14:48,560 you can see that rhenium disassociates 361 00:14:53,470 --> 00:14:51,380 hydrogen much better than tungsten but 362 00:14:57,850 --> 00:14:53,480 once you agree to that you set up the 363 00:15:00,840 --> 00:14:57,860 conditions for Duncans paradox here is a 364 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:00,850 plot of the differential hydrogen 365 00:15:06,070 --> 00:15:03,850 disassociation power in watts 366 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:06,080 pressure versus temperature on the 367 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:08,450 horizontal axis is the logarithm of the 368 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:11,090 pressure ranging from a 1/10 of a tour 369 00:15:16,450 --> 00:15:12,650 or about a ten thousandth of an 370 00:15:20,890 --> 00:15:16,460 atmosphere of hydrogen up to about 10 371 00:15:22,660 --> 00:15:20,900 Torr or about 100 and atmosphere and if 372 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:22,670 one goes in the vertical axis one has 373 00:15:27,250 --> 00:15:24,890 the temperature one notice that the temp 374 00:15:29,050 --> 00:15:27,260 that the that the that there's a red 375 00:15:30,730 --> 00:15:29,060 zone here which indicates and the upper 376 00:15:36,180 --> 00:15:30,740 temperature range it takes a great deal 377 00:15:38,620 --> 00:15:36,190 more power to disassociate to keep the 378 00:15:41,380 --> 00:15:38,630 rhenium film at hot than the tungsten 379 00:15:44,350 --> 00:15:41,390 one if one normalizes this to pressure 380 00:15:46,870 --> 00:15:44,360 one finds the activity up in the upper 381 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:46,880 left corner which indicates that at 382 00:15:51,700 --> 00:15:50,330 lower pressures the relative difference 383 00:15:54,820 --> 00:15:51,710 between rhenium and tungsten become 384 00:15:57,730 --> 00:15:54,830 accentuated so the filament experiments 385 00:16:00,100 --> 00:15:57,740 show the following both hydrogen both 386 00:16:02,290 --> 00:16:00,110 tungsten and rhenium demonstrate non 387 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:02,300 equilibrium hydrogen concentrations 10 388 00:16:05,650 --> 00:16:03,650 to 100 times higher than you can expect 389 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:05,660 from gas phase equilibrium and they're 390 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:07,250 also distinct from each other by almost 391 00:16:11,260 --> 00:16:09,290 a factor of two but there's a loophole 392 00:16:12,700 --> 00:16:11,270 here this does not violate the second 393 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:12,710 law because this is not a black body 394 00:16:18,450 --> 00:16:15,290 cavity of configuration so let's go to 395 00:16:20,650 --> 00:16:18,460 that here is Duncan Duncan's paradox 396 00:16:23,740 --> 00:16:20,660 results again are found in foundations 397 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:23,750 of physics from this year again we have 398 00:16:28,990 --> 00:16:26,210 a vacuum vessel housing a black body 399 00:16:30,579 --> 00:16:29,000 cavity cylinder which is heated by ohmic 400 00:16:33,190 --> 00:16:30,589 heating inside of which there are two 401 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:33,200 thermocouples type C thermocouples one 402 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:34,970 coated with rhenium one coated with 403 00:16:40,630 --> 00:16:38,330 tungsten here's the inside of the black 404 00:16:43,300 --> 00:16:40,640 body cavity uranium coated and tungsten 405 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:43,310 coated thermocouples this the inverse of 406 00:16:48,970 --> 00:16:45,170 this was also carried out in which we 407 00:16:52,630 --> 00:16:48,980 had a rhenium black body cavity rather 408 00:16:54,220 --> 00:16:52,640 than a tungsten one here again is the 409 00:16:56,110 --> 00:16:54,230 experimental apparatus on the left is 410 00:16:58,510 --> 00:16:56,120 the black body cylinder at the center 411 00:17:01,660 --> 00:16:58,520 the elec the Holding apparatus is the 412 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:01,670 copper and on the right the assembly is 413 00:17:06,460 --> 00:17:03,530 that before it goes into the vacuum 414 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:06,470 chamber now if one looks at the 415 00:17:08,980 --> 00:17:07,730 differential temperature between the 416 00:17:11,980 --> 00:17:08,990 tungsten and rhenium under these 417 00:17:16,990 --> 00:17:11,990 circumstances if one looks from about 418 00:17:17,470 --> 00:17:17,000 1,000 up to about 1951 finds most of the 419 00:17:19,870 --> 00:17:17,480 areas 420 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:19,880 which you'd expect in other words both 421 00:17:22,990 --> 00:17:21,290 of them act roughly the same because 422 00:17:24,370 --> 00:17:23,000 they're not chemically active yet all 423 00:17:26,980 --> 00:17:24,380 which occurs at high temperature or 424 00:17:28,329 --> 00:17:26,990 disassociation occurs but if one zeroes 425 00:17:32,230 --> 00:17:28,339 in one finds that there is an active 426 00:17:34,330 --> 00:17:32,240 region roughly between 1700 and about 427 00:17:35,710 --> 00:17:34,340 1950 where one has a great deal of 428 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:35,720 difference between the tungsten and 429 00:17:39,190 --> 00:17:37,730 rhenium the temperature difference 430 00:17:41,890 --> 00:17:39,200 between the tungsten rhenium under these 431 00:17:44,799 --> 00:17:41,900 circumstances is up to about over 125 432 00:17:47,380 --> 00:17:44,809 degrees Kelvin which is roughly about 6% 433 00:17:49,419 --> 00:17:47,390 of the 1950 which is the maximum 434 00:17:50,860 --> 00:17:49,429 temperature that would be equivalent to 435 00:17:53,230 --> 00:17:50,870 this glass of water 436 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:53,240 chilling itself down by roughly 20 437 00:17:59,770 --> 00:17:55,970 degrees in this room so in relative 438 00:18:01,180 --> 00:17:59,780 temperature so in summary the filament 439 00:18:03,039 --> 00:18:01,190 experiments support the blackbody 440 00:18:04,299 --> 00:18:03,049 experiments and demonstrate that one can 441 00:18:06,100 --> 00:18:04,309 sustain a steady state temperature 442 00:18:09,990 --> 00:18:06,110 temperature differential under black 443 00:18:12,490 --> 00:18:10,000 body cavity conditions and the blackbody 444 00:18:15,190 --> 00:18:12,500 experiments confirmed Duncan's paradox 445 00:18:16,860 --> 00:18:15,200 and conflict with the second law random 446 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:16,870 and systematic errors we're all 447 00:18:22,539 --> 00:18:20,690 acknowledged none can can account for 448 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:22,549 these large temperature differentials or 449 00:18:27,909 --> 00:18:25,690 their sustained nature future directions 450 00:18:29,500 --> 00:18:27,919 our lab is now looking for room 451 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:29,510 temperature analogues to this because 452 00:18:32,230 --> 00:18:30,890 once the room temperature analogues can 453 00:18:34,690 --> 00:18:32,240 be found commercial devices can be 454 00:18:36,940 --> 00:18:34,700 produced power densities for these are 455 00:18:38,890 --> 00:18:36,950 quite high power densities for the 456 00:18:40,450 --> 00:18:38,900 experiments just described are in the 457 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:40,460 order of 50 kilowatts per square meter 458 00:18:44,500 --> 00:18:43,010 in terms of the power difference the 459 00:18:47,070 --> 00:18:44,510 energy difference power differences 460 00:18:49,180 --> 00:18:47,080 between the tungsten and rhenium 461 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:49,190 surfaces this should be able to be 462 00:18:52,900 --> 00:18:50,650 scaled up by a factor of a thousand 463 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:52,910 lastly we'd like very much to have 464 00:18:58,980 --> 00:18:55,730 replication experiments done of this so 465 00:19:04,030 --> 00:18:58,990 in conclusion theory indicates that 466 00:19:05,890 --> 00:19:04,040 based on multiple theory papers that the 467 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:05,900 second law should be suspect at high 468 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:08,090 temperature and in these kinds of 469 00:19:14,420 --> 00:19:09,890 reactions experiments have now shown 470 00:19:27,360 --> 00:19:14,430 this to be the case thank you 471 00:19:33,670 --> 00:19:30,580 would it be accurate to say that the 472 00:19:35,710 --> 00:19:33,680 reason this effect only appears in your 473 00:19:40,690 --> 00:19:35,720 experiments at high temperatures is 474 00:19:44,010 --> 00:19:40,700 because the dissociation energy of 475 00:19:46,570 --> 00:19:44,020 hydrogen is is high enough that the 476 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:46,580 dissociation rate is negligible at lower 477 00:19:50,470 --> 00:19:48,530 temperatures which would seem to imply 478 00:19:53,230 --> 00:19:50,480 that if you want a room-temperature 479 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:53,240 analogue you want to search for a gas 480 00:19:57,760 --> 00:19:55,210 species where the dissociation 481 00:20:00,640 --> 00:19:57,770 recombination energy is comparable to 482 00:20:02,170 --> 00:20:00,650 room temperature thermal energy yes 483 00:20:04,930 --> 00:20:02,180 that's exactly what I wanted to say I 484 00:20:06,790 --> 00:20:04,940 didn't have time so thank you York so 485 00:20:08,350 --> 00:20:06,800 yes the room temperature studies will be 486 00:20:10,890 --> 00:20:08,360 looking at molecules that aren't 487 00:20:13,810 --> 00:20:10,900 covalently bonded so for hydrogen the 488 00:20:15,910 --> 00:20:13,820 disassociation energy is about 4.5 evie 489 00:20:17,620 --> 00:20:15,920 and it works very well at around 2,000 490 00:20:19,390 --> 00:20:17,630 degrees and higher so for room 491 00:20:21,490 --> 00:20:19,400 temperature ones you would want to drop 492 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:21,500 that bond energy by roughly a factor of 493 00:20:25,420 --> 00:20:24,050 five to ten and the type of bond that 494 00:20:28,060 --> 00:20:25,430 would be appropriate for that would be 495 00:20:30,100 --> 00:20:28,070 either van der Waals bonds or hydrogen 496 00:20:31,690 --> 00:20:30,110 bonds so the kinds of dimers were 497 00:20:35,050 --> 00:20:31,700 looking at now are things like formic 498 00:20:37,270 --> 00:20:35,060 acid and acetic acid which have hydrogen 499 00:20:39,370 --> 00:20:37,280 bonds exactly in that range so we will 500 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:39,380 be looking at those particular molecules 501 00:20:44,710 --> 00:20:42,730 on room-temperature surfaces Thank You 502 00:20:46,660 --> 00:20:44,720 Bernie be fair to say that what you're 503 00:20:47,770 --> 00:20:46,670 doing altima is capturing maybe solar 504 00:20:49,270 --> 00:20:47,780 energy because everything in the 505 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:49,280 environment has been heated by the Sun 506 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:51,610 pretty much that's worthy all the 507 00:20:55,270 --> 00:20:53,690 environments come from so would you say 508 00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:55,280 it's all familiar just another indirect 509 00:20:57,700 --> 00:20:56,690 way of capturing solar energy well yeah 510 00:21:01,630 --> 00:20:57,710 you could say it came from the Big Bang 511 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:01,640 if you want sure in terms of an ongoing 512 00:21:06,220 --> 00:21:03,890 heating process you're extracting this 513 00:21:08,110 --> 00:21:06,230 from the environment know the world of 514 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:08,120 the world is mostly heated by the Sun I 515 00:21:11,980 --> 00:21:09,410 mean we have a little bit residual 516 00:21:13,300 --> 00:21:11,990 radioactivity from from the formation of 517 00:21:14,860 --> 00:21:13,310 the earth and and gravitational 518 00:21:16,450 --> 00:21:14,870 accretion accretion energy but yeah it's 519 00:21:18,850 --> 00:21:16,460 it's basically thermal but the 520 00:21:20,530 --> 00:21:18,860 difference is this now become if you can 521 00:21:22,930 --> 00:21:20,540 actually extract the energy from the 522 00:21:24,610 --> 00:21:22,940 environment it becomes recyclable in 523 00:21:25,870 --> 00:21:24,620 other words you don't have to pay for 524 00:21:27,820 --> 00:21:25,880 your energy anymore 525 00:21:30,130 --> 00:21:27,830 and the kinds of devices I'm talking 526 00:21:31,630 --> 00:21:30,140 about our devices which are sent as this 527 00:21:33,100 --> 00:21:31,640 piece of paper which sustained 100 528 00:21:35,410 --> 00:21:33,110 degree temperature differential across 529 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:35,420 one side to the other in which case you 530 00:21:39,430 --> 00:21:37,010 can put plop this down into cold water 531 00:21:41,140 --> 00:21:39,440 and the other side will boil water for 532 00:21:44,110 --> 00:21:41,150 you and that energy comes directly from 533 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:44,120 the environment so it is solar energy 534 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:46,490 but it but it's but the difference is 535 00:21:51,610 --> 00:21:50,090 solar energy is used and then lost here 536 00:21:53,730 --> 00:21:51,620 the thermal energy is always around us 537 00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:53,740 and always will always be around us 538 00:21:59,170 --> 00:21:56,810 renewed by the Sun well in principle if 539 00:22:02,140 --> 00:21:59,180 you were to seal up this room completely 540 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:02,150 in a perp in a perfect thermos you could 541 00:22:05,830 --> 00:22:03,410 run everything and it's in this room 542 00:22:07,150 --> 00:22:05,840 forever on its own thermal energy so 543 00:22:09,490 --> 00:22:07,160 that's a difference I mean you can 544 00:22:23,700 --> 00:22:09,500 decouple yourself from continuous use of 545 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:27,310 it's Charles Daniel I read your paper as 546 00:22:29,770 --> 00:22:28,730 you know I commend you for your good 547 00:22:32,620 --> 00:22:29,780 work thank you 548 00:22:37,450 --> 00:22:32,630 hope this question makes sense did you 549 00:22:39,430 --> 00:22:37,460 run a total thermal dissipation budget 550 00:22:41,380 --> 00:22:39,440 and did that include the ohmic heating 551 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:41,390 in the filaments no it's a good point 552 00:22:44,799 --> 00:22:43,490 the reason why the particular 553 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:44,809 experiments here we'll never have any 554 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:46,610 commercial application is because you 555 00:22:50,230 --> 00:22:49,010 have to heat the system up to over 1500 556 00:22:52,810 --> 00:22:50,240 degrees before you start seeing the 557 00:22:53,919 --> 00:22:52,820 effect and so when you actually look at 558 00:22:55,510 --> 00:22:53,929 the amount of energy that goes into the 559 00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:55,520 vacuum pumps into the ohmic heating of 560 00:22:59,320 --> 00:22:57,410 the blackbody and so on you're not this 561 00:23:01,390 --> 00:22:59,330 is not commercially viable that's most 562 00:23:03,490 --> 00:23:01,400 certainly true but the principle has 563 00:23:05,380 --> 00:23:03,500 been made the second law is supposed to 564 00:23:07,419 --> 00:23:05,390 apply for absolute zero to infinite 565 00:23:10,180 --> 00:23:07,429 temperature and so if you can prove it 566 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:10,190 in any temperature regime the second law 567 00:23:14,350 --> 00:23:12,410 is no longer absolute and that opens the 568 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:14,360 door for other possibilities and so our 569 00:23:18,580 --> 00:23:15,890 what we're trying to do is bring it down 570 00:23:20,919 --> 00:23:18,590 from 2,000 degrees this effect down by a 571 00:23:23,230 --> 00:23:20,929 factor of six roughly to rim temperature 572 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:23,240 and then we can make devices like I'm 573 00:23:27,990 --> 00:23:25,610 describing with like I'm describing so 574 00:23:30,190 --> 00:23:28,000 in terms of energy budget we don't claim 575 00:23:32,350 --> 00:23:30,200 we claim that we have demonstrated the 576 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:32,360 breakdown in the second law but not a 577 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:37,450 commercially viable one thank you 578 00:23:47,769 --> 00:23:41,930 [Applause]